That's Grizzlies' Tony Allen flailing on the court, apparently in agony as he is grabbing his head after San Antonio Spurs' Manu Ginobili was called for a flagrant foul late in the fourth quarter of Game 2 of the Western Conference Finals. But was it more an outstanding overreacting job by Allen?
Clearly Manu went for his arm but no where did Allen hit his head during his fall yet there he was, clutching his head seemingly in agony.
When asked about Manu's foul postgame, Allen replied, "Yes, most definitely. He cannot pull me out the air."
However, this isn't the first time Allen showed off his flopping skills on the court.
At the AT&T Center, fans were in an uproar at the refs for calling Manu for the flagrant foul considering the call helped Memphis close the gap and force overtime in Game 2.
But the question remains, was this Tony Allen trying to sell it or a legit flagrant foul call on Ginobili?
OK Spurs fans you saw the video, heard from Allen, now let your voice be heard... was this a flop or not?
Dude... Dave McNulla's a bit off. Or is he just being completely and utterly facetious? I mean... "gravity"???
Hahahaha... Some interesting takes there. Most seem fairly cool, just of the opinion that it was an act (it was)... but also incorrectly thinking that this impacts the flagrant (it shouldn't). Dave had a strange view on it tho' - that Ginobili didn't grab Allen, nor was he below him. That was... odd.
Jeff, you have some *doozy* commenters on your site. BlazingDeath... now there's a rocket scientist!
Obviously. But your piece intimates that there's a correlation between the result and the action when assessing the flagrant. There isn't.
Mickael Pietrus' head never hit the floor here.... he got carted off and suffered a serious concussion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvA9XhW_Pnw
Now I'm a bit aghast at your understanding of the rule concerning this, hoping it's just your passion for SA. If you read my comment, you'd note that I AGREED that it was an "...obvious and egregious flop* by Allen". But dude, that has absolutely no relevance as to whether it was a flagrant foul or not. I also have to admit to being somewhat bemused by Spurs fans being so upset about a "flop" concerning Manu Ginobli... when he's on the receiving end for once!
Point? I have to admit to a bit of surprise here, in how you're pursuing this. I think you're allowing your fandom to colour your interpretation of the rules. It's a well-known fact that the referees should not consider how badly a person is injured in assessing a flagrant. If a guy hurts himself, it doesn't come into play with assessing *the action that caused the injury* (and not assessing the injury itself). The same holds true here: you cannot *assess the obvious and egregious flop* by Allen, and MUST assess the action by Ginobli. Ginobli grabbed the wrist of an airborne player, and pulled him down (via momentum and motion). Absolutely a flop. Absolutely a flagrant.
that flagrant call was a foul i've seen many times that has never been called that. the only reason the refs decided to review it was they thought allen was actually hurt. they should have immediately seen from the replay that he was faking. i can see the league recending the flagrant call and/or possibly charging allen when flop. (not for the actual foul, that much was clear, but for embellishing to influence the refs)
where was teh flagrant foul in game 1 when he intentionally tripped parker?
That's a nasty fall. On the head. Must have hurt a lot. The league should keep him under concussion supervision and have him tested after game three. :-p
I have no issue with his faking it. He's trying to win - welcome to the flop club. The problem is he verbally assaults the club members.
As for the call, physics makes it hard to push a guy down by his forearm unless he a) complies by resisting the pushing action, or b) is dead had has rigamortis. The hinge of his elbow and the hinge of his shoulder allows his arm to be pushed down without his body following. In the legal biz, they call it contributory negligence.
Umm... you're airborne, someone who isn't holds your arm unexpectedly and moves beyond you. Your vaunted laws of physics will ensure you fall. More so, it wasn't a "push".
Did Allen go on the worst acting spree since Tom Cruise in the late 90s? Absolutely. Awful stuff an he SHOULD be fined (I doubt the league will tho'). But that *should* be irrelevant in assessing the flagrant foul.
@WithMalice Ginobili pushed Tony Allens arm down with his hand. He didn't pull down, that would require being below Allen. He didn't push Allen's body down, his shoulder, his head, or other part of Allen that would require Allen to fall by way of physics. He pushed the arm past midway of the appendage, with a hinge - a shoulder that would allow Allen's arm to lower without body lowering. Try it. Ask somebody to raise their arm in the air. Push their forearm down. If their body gets pushed down, it's because they refused to bend at a natural bending point, the shoulder.
Nah Dave, I didn't say "entitled to be right", I referred to the "sense of entitlement" which lead you to be condescending.
Anyway, I've only just realized that you're taking the piss. Completely facetious.
No-one discussing this topic with the opinions you've flown could be doing so without having tongue firmly pressed in cheek.
Well done, you had me going there for a bit. Normally, I pick up on the satirical much faster than this.
Kudos to you sir.
I am not entitled to be right. I am right. There is a difference. Right didn't come to me, I went to it.
No Dave, you're delusional. And I mean that in the most gentle way possible.
You stated that you only speak this way because of some sense of entitlement at being right. Condescension is condescension, whatever the justification given. Forgive me if my patience has worn somewhat thin, and I'm giving a lil' back.
"Convoluted"? Well, your replies have become increasingly so, and your last post is no exception... now blaming "gravity" as part of the problem. So... it wasn't even Ginobili's fault at all now.
Come on Dave... "gravity"?
Talking of convolution - "grabbing and pulling someone's arm" is a basketball play... you know what I'm talking about Dave - it's in the rule book. It's not a "basketball play". Indulge in semantics all you like on that.
*Pushed*?... to quote Inigo Montoya, you keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
The only reason I didn't discuss the LeBron play is for the reasons YOU listed when you first mentioned it. "It was the same only it wasn't".
Speaking of avoidance tho' - glad you've moved off the "he-wasn't-below-him" stance. That was... odd.
Don't both replying Dave. It'll only be even more nonsensical. I've used video/photos... and you've used... well... "gravity".
Convoluted reply? That isn't an unnecessary attempt at an insult?
Ginobili pushed Allen's arm downwards. You are arguing that the sky is orange. And again, you beg the question of what a basketball play is. A foul is a basketball play. It's in the rules, and teams incorporate it on a regular basis to gain advantage even when they know they will be caught. Getting caught is intentional.
You also beg the question about what caused Allen to fall. The fact is that gravity made him fall (that and he doesn't have the ability to fly). How he fell is a function of the way he jumped, the foul that Ginobili committed, and the tension that he had between his body and arm. Ginobili is only responsible for the foul, not the jump, not the tension. Those three things made the whole play an accident. Just like the play last night that was NOT called a flagrant. I guess Lebron should have gone fetal position and rubbed his face.
You can ignore it all you want. I am correct.
Video-don't-lie Dave. Nor do dictionary definitions.
Pull: to draw towards oneself.
Push: to press upon or against (a thing) with force in order to move it away.
We can argue semantics as to which terminology to use, but the facts remain the same: Manu Ginobli exerted a non-basketball play *force* upon Tony Allen, whilst Allen was airborne... which caused him to fall.
I suspect that there's an even more convoluted reply from you in my near future...
My comments may seem condescending but that is because I think that I am right and you are not. I would never carry a discussion like this otherwise. I am not passionate about a non-issue - I am not paying Ginobili's fine and because the Spurs won will not be affected in any way. I just like being right and telling people about it.
I've seen the video on my large screen TV several times. There is no doubt that Ginobili grabbed Tony Allen's forearm, but you beg the question about whether that can force Allen's body downward. I say that it can if and only if Tony Allen resists the downward motion that Ginobili put on his arm.
Push is a direction and pull is a direction. If I bring something closer to me, it's a pull. If I try to change it's direction in any other way, it's a push.By now I am sure you saw the foul on Lebron that was virtually the same situation, except Lebron's arm was fouled on the upper arm and there was no grab that I saw. The former makes it worse, the latter makes is lesser. In all, it was about the same - minor contact that ended with a person in a vulnerable position made worse by the victim's torquing action to take a shot against the force of the foul. It happens.
Such an astute and well-versed reply. I am completely unarmed in the face of your withering logic.
You're right champ: there's a troll here... but it's not me.
I'm pretty sure Jeff's fine with my posts, even if he may not agree with my contention. Jeff and I don't need to agree with every single opinion for us to get along just fine.
You tho'... you present nothing to the discussion. You lack wit and ability to converse on the issue, so you sink to the tired , ol' *you-don't-favour-my-team-therefore-you're-a-troll*.
Bring more to the argument, or simply shut-up. I really don't care which.
@WithMalice Hey troll go back to your parents basement.
I'll allow your somewhat facetious commentary as to being simply a "passionate Spurs fan". Henceforth, any chance we can just discuss this without condescension - fair?
Anyway... let's address your assertion (calmly, and rationally):
1. Being below Allen.
Err... Dave? He was absolutely "below Allen". You might want to check the video shown at the beginning of this piece.
Have a look: http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9417/manuallen1.png
2. Push vs Pull. Well, this is the only place that I'm reading it as a "push"... and I have to say no: he "grabbed". Commentary even stated (at the 0.17) "...as Ginobli grabbed his arm". Again, I urge you to look at the video at the beginning of the piece.
Better yet - check this one out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z2Sa62bW6g
HD, clearer. Watch from 0.52 through to about 0.58 (slo-mo, hi-def!). Manu's hand is definitely grabbing, definitely pulling down. And again at 1.06-1.11.
Here's a picture of the hand on his arm: http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9345/manuallen2.png
Note the position of thumb vs fingers, that's a grabbing motion.
I absolutely agree that Allen overacted (tho' you can get concussed without actual contact to the head - tho' clearly that's not the case here). But Ginobili made a play that was potentially dangerous. That's a flagrant.
Shame on you Tony Allen. You are playing sissy basketball not a pr basketball. Go home and cry for that foul with your Mom. Poor Tony, baby. That foul hurts you so much like you hit your head in the pillow. Hu!hu!hu!